[Alright, Sequart is still down, so Tim and I thought we'd cross-post this week's Splash Page discussion on Final Crisis #5. Here is the first part.]Tim Callahan: Two of our colleagues over at CBR reviewed Final Crisis #5, and while one raved about it, the other thought it was pretty terrible. How could one comic cause such different reactions? And where do you stand on the greatness/atrocity of Final Crisis #5?
Chad Nevett: I was surprised at the two differing reactions, but also enjoyed each take. While I personally loved this issue, I like seeing what people who disagree with me say, maybe make me see things from another perspective or shed light on aspects/flaws I didn't notice. That didn't happen in this case, because this has been my favorite issue yet as Morrison goes full-on insane with compressed storytelling that enters scenes late and leaves them early. I think we're beginning to see that the slow beginning was very purposeful as the story picks up speed and looks like it will soon go too fast, breeze through events too quickly... which Morrison is known to do at times, but I always love. There's a manic glee in these pages that I can't help but love. Chaos in full swing, Darkseid is everything, and Metron continues to work against him in subtle, secret ways... Lovely. This was a goddamn good comic.
On the other hand, I can see why some wouldn't like it since it is very briskly paced and demands you pay attention, makes various allusions to previous Morrison works and, in some ways, requires that you've read those other works. Which brings me to a question I can guess the answer to: Dan DiDio revealed that Morrison's Batman story really concludes in the pages of Final Crisis #6... does that bother you at all? Since this series and Morrison's work in general already requires a certain amount of foreknowledge and interconnectivity with the rest of his work, is this a problem (or even a surprise)?
TC: I'm not sure I understand what DiDio said about that, especially the part where he described the "reveal" Morrison talked about this summer actually showing up in Final Crisis #6, and that was "the plan all along." Okay, I understand him, I just don't really believe it, because Morrison was clearly talking about the end of "R.I.P." and now his words have been retconned, or something. But I have absolutely no problem if Batman's story concludes in Final Crisis #6, although it seems like a weird place to put it since Batman has played practically no role in the series thus far. He was quickly dispatched in issue #2 and has been locked inside the Lump contraption ever since. I'll reserve judgment until I see how it plays out, but if it does happen the way DiDio says, then it's not like I'd be offended. I read all of Morrison's comics, obviously, and I think everyone else should too.
Final Crisis #5 was also MY favorite issue thus far. I forgot how good this series has been, actually, since the delays have derailed it from my mind, but we've pretty much raved about each and every issue so far, and yet when I read this one, I thought, "wow, I'll have to rethink that Best Comics of 2008" list I've been working on. I didn't even consider Final Crisis in my Top 20 list, but after this issue, I think I have to.
Did you read Jog's review? I think he nailed what's so great about the issue (as he does so often in his reviews of things), but I'm interested in one of the comments on his blog, by "Kenny" who writes, "Every positive Final Crisis review reads like someone already in love with the material speaking to others in love with the material about all the stuff they love with no explanation of why. After every Final Crisis review, I come away more and more confused - what am I missing? What is so obviously good about Final Crisis that by me not immediately grasping it, no one can seemingly explain it?" Now I think Jog does a pretty good job of explaining what's good about issue #5, but I think we should try to speak to all the Kennys in audience. So, if you were at a convention and Kenny came up to you with these questions, and you had a stack of Final Crisis comics handy, what would you show him and talk to him about to explain what makes this series so good?
[What will my advice be? What other things will be discuss? Find out in the second part, over on Tim's blog!]
6 comments:
See, what annoys me the most about Morrison's fans (and Lord knows I've done this too) is that when people don't like whatever the man writes, they say those people don't get it. I totally get Final Crisis (well, I think I do), and it's been wildly uneven. The stuff that you and Tim love I find repetitive. As I wrote in my review, the fact that Morrison is hinting at yet another examination of the layers of fictional-vs-real reality doesn't thrill me, it just reminds me of Animal Man and Doom Patrol and even The Filth, when he did it better. I still enjoy reading Final Crisis, but the fact that I don't love it doesn't mean I don't get it.
And whenever I like reading people's reactions to a comic (yours and Tim's included) more than I like the actual comic, that ain't good.
Keep up the good work, sir!
I've been trying my best not to fall into that "you just don't get it" trap, because there are a lot of things about Morrison's writing that one may not like. I've seen people use the same words that I use to say why I love his writing to call it awful--that's obviously not a case of getting it/not getting, but a genuine difference of opinion. Which is fine. Where I'm having problems is people who find it "confusing," because I genuinely don't get THAT.
I like that Morrison is exploring the same themes/ideas, because each time he does it, it IS different (at least as far as I can see) and a lot of my favourite writers have spent careers doing the same. Again, not for everyone and calling it repetitive is certainly correct in many ways (people level the same complaints against Ellis and Ennis--which are valid, but I still enjoy how they explore the ideas this time around).
Ah, but, you're right, it's never a good sign when you enjoy the commentary more than the content. I had that happen a lot in my undergrad, where I'd show up to lectures and walk away loving a book... until I sat down to read it.
I am really finding the structure of Final Crisis interesting and, probably, the best thing about it. How it has built up pace while still maintaing the same sort of quick-cuts is very remarkable.
As well, thanks.
Yeah, it's really not that confusing. Morrison throws in a few weird pet ideas, but in context, they're easy to figure out even if you've never read a Morrison comic before. Everyone has been praising Rock of Ages as a way to do this story "right," but Rock of Ages, structurally, was far more confusing than this is. Or maybe I'm just older and smarter.
That being said, it's certainly more interesting than a lot of boring old superhero comics, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't really fall apart in the final two issues. That would suck.
I love "Rock of Ages," but it also benefits from jumping in after Darkseid took over and has ruled the world for years--and only having that bit last two issues with the second one a full-in assault on Darkseid and his people. It's a similar plot, but totally different in focus and style. I think this is a reworking of that plot a little since that future never happened thanks to the three heroes saving the Worlogog. I'm still wondering if the Worlogog will play a role here since it seems like the ultimate weapon against Darkseid--is that Metron's weapon?
But, yeah, I'm with you, "Rock of Ages" is much more complex in its structure. The JLA story that has a very similar style is "Crisis Times Five," which took me a little bit to understand (the first issue, at least)... I'm still curious if people online then bitched about not "getting it."
"my advice, actually, is, if you aren't following along by this point, give up. A horribly pessimistic message that shows an odd snobbish cynicism, but we're five issues in and if things aren't making sense, I'm not sure they ever will."
I was telling people after the second issue that if they weren't getting it to stop wasting their money on the individual issues and to trade wait it if they were still interested in the story when that came out, or if not, then just move on. The story was going to get clearer, and it did, but if the first two issues were too much for you, it was never going to get that much clearer. Better to see them move on and not complain about wasting their money than to have to continually read them bashing something I'm immensely enjoying.
As you said, people getting it and not liking it is one thing. There are certain established and highly respected writers in comics that I get and just don't like myself. It happens, and that's cool. But the people who don't get it should have stopped spending their money on something they don't understand and therefore couldn't possibly like a long time ago when there are so many comics out there to choose from.
Greg, it's obvious you get FC and not like it. That's a matter of taste. However, most negative criticism from comic book readers boils down to "This sucks, Morrison's on drugs." In other words, it goes right over their heads. You at least offer reasons for why you don't like it; those people don't. Hence, the FC fans usually fall back on the lazy assertion that "if you don't like it, you don't get it."
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